You cannot prove that there was not a Purple Event either. The
meaning of "believe" ranges from "suspect" to a "firm religious
conviction". I am pretty damn sure that there is no god. The concept
is complex and man-made--and actually evolved by man. First there were
spirits, spooks, and ghosts, then there was many gods, then the idea of there
being but one God came along. How do you know that the world didn't come
into being via a Purple Event? What do you believe about that?
"Their right to believe stops where my freedoms begin." is the same as "A
smoker's right to smoke stops where my rights (to clean air) begin." If a
cult (any group of religionists) jeopardizes my safety then I should be able to
use the law to put a stop to it. That is what I am really saying.
So therefore let's educate people that religion is jeopardizing their
safety (e.g., in the form of terrorism today) and educate people as to what
religion really is (which is hearsay).
Sure, go ahead and post any of this on your friends site.
Dear Darwin Bedford,
First of all, you are not closed minded because you BELIEVE that there is
no god. You are closed minded because you are stating that there is no god, and
that you are sure of it. You still failed to prove to me that god does not
exist. I don't believe that there is a god, but thats all it is, a belief. I
can't come up with any untainted proof that there is no god. As well, I can't
come up with an untainted peice of proof that there is a god. To say that there
is no god and that you are right, religious people are wrong, that is what makes
you close minded.
Second, people should be allowed to believe what they want, and to practice
what they want, as long as it does not infringe on other peoples rights. Okay,
there are alot of people in the U.S that have guns, and they don't go around
shooting people who don't believe the same thing as they do. It would go against
there religion to do that. Wars are fought for religious purposes, which is a
complete contradiction to what the religion says to do. But again, if we lived
in a world where there was no religion, wars would still be fought. People do
fight for their beliefs, but there are so many others things that is fought for,
land, money, possesions etc. To believe what you want, is an essential freedom,
one that 96% of the world needs.
Thirdly, I do not, in anyway at all mean that "the millions of atheists
that are in the world don't do good deeds and would be killers?" I am an atheist
and I do more as many good deeds as most of the christian people i know. I am
saying that some people need a motivation to do good deeds. Some people need to
believe that by doing this they are doing what their god would want. Some people
don't realize that feeding the poor, or helping the homeless is just the right
thing to do. People need the motivation to do good deeds, and people do the good
deeds as a result of this motivation.
Lastly, I don't fully understand what you mean by "Their right to believe
stops where my freedoms begin." the idea i am getting from this is that for you
to be truly free you would have to live in a world where people cannot believe
what they want to. Which in my eyes does not make sense.
If you could e-mail me back it would be greatly appreciated.
would you mind if i were to put these e-mail transactions on mine, and my
friends web site?
Michael C*******
From: Darwin Bedford <Darwin@atheists.net>
To: "Michael C*******"
Subject: Re: [WEB-20021010.726463] Message to Darwin
Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 22:34:42 -0700
Dear Michael C*******,
I don't know where you get the idea that I am closed minded. Is it
just because I know there are no gods?
Of course people should not be free to believe what they want to.
That would be disastrous if we allow that to the extreme. There are a lot
of U.S. citizens with guns that think that way. They should not be allowed
to shoot me just because they believe that God wants them to shoot
atheists.
Their right to believe stops where my freedoms begin.
With your "no consequence for their actions" theory then up to 31% of the
people of my province (BC) would be in jail because that's how many don't adhere
to any religion. Are you saying that the millions of atheists that are in
the world don't do good deeds and would be killers?
Darwin Bedford
At 05:39 PM 10/14/2002 +0000, you wrote:
To Mr.Bedford
Okay, there is a difference between what you are doing and the
jehovahs witnesses are doing. People go to your site, looking for something
while the JWs go out to tell people what to believe. But the bigger difference
is that JWs are not as close minded, if you don't want to join they leave you
alone because they let people believe what they want to believe.
How can you tell me that they are acting upon 'untrue' beiefs?
You cannot come up with one peice of untainted proof that there is no god, nor
can they come up with one bit of untainted proof that there is a god. I don't
believe that there is a god, but i won't be closes minded and say that there is
no way that god does not exist.
If you truly believe that people should not be free to
believe what they want to, then are probably the most intolerant person i know.
People believe what they want, and there is war about it. But just think, in a
world where everyone was atheist, there is the potential to be even more
war-torn. For example: if some guy was getting harrassed everyday in his
highschool, and wanted to kill everyone, then he would go and do it because
there is no consequence for his actions. He won't go to hell, there will be no
jugement for him. But if he were catholic then he would consider something else
that his god would like. People need this kind of ruling in their lives.
Christians go out and do good deeds because they are following the ways of
jesus, thats the motivation. I also go out and do good deeds just because i know
its the right thing to do. But lots of people don't just know, they need to be
told 'jesus fed the poor, now you should go feed the poor'
To live in a society where people are not allowed
to believe what they want to believe, is a society where our freedom is taken
away. It would be another nazi-germany all over again.
Feel free to reply, i would like to debate this further
Michael C*******
From: Darwin Bedford <Darwin@atheists.net>
To: Michael C*******
Subject: Re: [WEB-20021010.726463] Message to Darwin
Date: Sun, 13 Oct 2002 23:20:45 -0700
Dear Michael C*******,
There is a big difference from what I am doing and jehovahs witness coming
to your door. The JW's are a cult that are spreading untrue ideas, whereas
I am cautioning people not to act on faith but to act on reason. People
should NOT be free to believe what they want to believe.
If this were true then there would be even more killing going on.
What people believe needs to watched, criticized, and regulated.
Darwin Bedford
At , you wrote:
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date and Time: Thursday, October 10, 2002, 15:26 PST
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
From:
michael C*******
Message:
Hey man, this is a good site. I share the same common belief as you,
god was created out of ignorance. I have written many essays and have done some
very intellectual thought processes in the feild of god and other such
nonsense.
But i feel that you are kind of close minded. People should be free
to believe what they want to believe. You are shoving atheist's beliefs down
pepoples throat. Your shirts and posters are all very christian bashing, which
is not what atheism is all
about. Its about not beileving in some god or spiritual being, not 'shove
your cross up your ass' Atheism should not be a negative thing, it should be
positive, 'believe what you want. just don't try to change my ways' Think about
it, by flaunting your
belie
fs and trying to change others in such a negative way you are no better
than some jehovahs witness coming to your door and try to get you to join them,
and your no better than some christian person who is intolerant of our beliefs.
You both act the same
, just believe different things.
If you want to e-mail me back with any reply at all, i would
appreciate it.
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