Dear Michael C*******,
You cannot prove that there was not a Purple Event either. The meaning of "believe" ranges from "suspect" to a "firm religious conviction". I am pretty damn sure that there is no god. The concept is complex and man-made--and actually evolved by man. First there were spirits, spooks, and ghosts, then there was many gods, then the idea of there being but one God came along. How do you know that the world didn't come into being via a Purple Event? What do you believe about that?
"Their right to believe stops where my freedoms begin." is the same as "A smoker's right to smoke stops where my rights (to clean air) begin." If a cult (any group of religionists) jeopardizes my safety then I should be able to use the law to put a stop to it. That is what I am really saying. So therefore let's educate people that religion is jeopardizing their safety (e.g., in the form of terrorism today) and educate people as to what religion really is (which is hearsay).
Sure, go ahead and post any of this on your friends site.
Darwin Bedford
www.atheists.net
At 11:20 PM 10/22/2002 +0000, you wrote:
Dear Darwin Bedford,
First of all, you are not closed minded because you BELIEVE that there is no god. You are closed minded because you are stating that there is no god, and that you are sure of it. You still failed to prove to me that god does not exist. I don't believe that there is a god, but thats all it is, a belief. I can't come up with any untainted proof that there is no god. As well, I can't come up with an untainted peice of proof that there is a god. To say that there is no god and that you are right, religious people are wrong, that is what makes you close minded.
Second, people should be allowed to believe what they want, and to practice what they want, as long as it does not infringe on other peoples rights. Okay, there are alot of people in the U.S that have guns, and they don't go around shooting people who don't believe the same thing as they do. It would go against there religion to do that. Wars are fought for religious purposes, which is a complete contradiction to what the religion says to do. But again, if we lived in a world where there was no religion, wars would still be fought. People do fight for their beliefs, but there are so many others things that is fought for, land, money, possesions etc. To believe what you want, is an essential freedom, one that 96% of the world needs.
Thirdly, I do not, in anyway at all mean that "the millions of atheists that are in the world don't do good deeds and would be killers?" I am an atheist and I do more as many good deeds as most of the christian people i know. I am saying that some people need a motivation to do good deeds. Some people need to believe that by doing this they are doing what their god would want. Some people don't realize that feeding the poor, or helping the homeless is just the right thing to do. People need the motivation to do good deeds, and people do the good deeds as a result of this motivation.
Lastly, I don't fully understand what you mean by "Their right to believe stops where my freedoms begin." the idea i am getting from this is that for you to be truly free you would have to live in a world where people cannot believe what they want to. Which in my eyes does not make sense.
If you could e-mail me back it would be greatly appreciated.
would you mind if i were to put these e-mail transactions on mine, and my friends web site?
Michael C*******
From: Darwin Bedford <Darwin@atheists.net>
To: "Michael C*******"
Subject: Re: [WEB-20021010.726463] Message to Darwin
Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 22:34:42 -0700
Dear Michael C*******,
I don't know where you get the idea that I am closed minded. Is it just because I know there are no gods?
Of course people should not be free to believe what they want to. That would be disastrous if we allow that to the extreme. There are a lot of U.S. citizens with guns that think that way. They should not be allowed to shoot me just because they believe that God wants them to shoot atheists.
Their right to believe stops where my freedoms begin.
With your "no consequence for their actions" theory then up to 31% of the people of my province (BC) would be in jail because that's how many don't adhere to any religion. Are you saying that the millions of atheists that are in the world don't do good deeds and would be killers?
Darwin Bedford
www.atheists.net
At 05:39 PM 10/14/2002 +0000, you wrote:
To Mr.Bedford
Okay, there is a difference between what you are doing and the jehovahs witnesses are doing. People go to your site, looking for something while the JWs go out to tell people what to believe. But the bigger difference is that JWs are not as close minded, if you don't want to join they leave you alone because they let people believe what they want to believe.
How can you tell me that they are acting upon 'untrue' beiefs? You cannot come up with one peice of untainted proof that there is no god, nor can they come up with one bit of untainted proof that there is a god. I don't believe that there is a god, but i won't be closes minded and say that there is no way that god does not exist.
If you truly believe that people should not be free to believe what they want to, then are probably the most intolerant person i know. People believe what they want, and there is war about it. But just think, in a world where everyone was atheist, there is the potential to be even more war-torn. For example: if some guy was getting harrassed everyday in his highschool, and wanted to kill everyone, then he would go and do it because there is no consequence for his actions. He won't go to hell, there will be no jugement for him. But if he were catholic then he would consider something else that his god would like. People need this kind of ruling in their lives. Christians go out and do good deeds because they are following the ways of jesus, thats the motivation. I also go out and do good deeds just because i know its the right thing to do. But lots of people don't just know, they need to be told 'jesus fed the poor, now you should go feed the poor'
To live in a society where people are not allowed to believe what they want to believe, is a society where our freedom is taken away. It would be another nazi-germany all over again.
Feel free to reply, i would like to debate this further
Michael C*******
From: Darwin Bedford <Darwin@atheists.net>
To: Michael C*******
Subject: Re: [WEB-20021010.726463] Message to Darwin
Date: Sun, 13 Oct 2002 23:20:45 -0700
Dear Michael C*******,
There is a big difference from what I am doing and jehovahs witness coming to your door. The JW's are a cult that are spreading untrue ideas, whereas I am cautioning people not to act on faith but to act on reason. People should NOT be free to believe what they want to believe.
If this were true then there would be even more killing going on. What people believe needs to watched, criticized, and regulated.
Darwin Bedford
www.atheists.net
At , you wrote:
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Date and Time: Thursday, October 10, 2002, 15:26 PST
Source URL: http://www.atheists.net
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From:
michael C*******
Message:
Hey man, this is a good site. I share the same common belief as you, god was created out of ignorance. I have written many essays and have done some very intellectual thought processes in the feild of god and other such nonsense.
But i feel that you are kind of close minded. People should be free to believe what they want to believe. You are shoving atheist's beliefs down pepoples throat. Your shirts and posters are all very christian bashing, which is not what atheism is all
about. Its about not beileving in some god or spiritual being, not 'shove your cross up your ass' Atheism should not be a negative thing, it should be positive, 'believe what you want. just don't try to change my ways' Think about it, by flaunting your
belie
fs and trying to change others in such a negative way you are no better than some jehovahs witness coming to your door and try to get you to join them, and your no better than some christian person who is intolerant of our beliefs. You both act the same
, just believe different things.
If you want to e-mail me back with any reply at all, i would appreciate it.