Date: Thu, 03 Feb 2000 22:05:28 -0600
Subject: Nothing
From: "Micheal B****" 
To: Darwin@atheists.net

Hey Darwin,
    What you are doing is such a noble cause.  In my life travels I myself
have found it hard to believe that Jesus exists.  There are lots of
different books and historic accounts that say there really was a guy named
Jesus.  I have also thought about the idea that there is no God let alone no
Jesus Christ who would come and save us.  Then one of my friends pointed out
two possibilities to me.  One possibility is that there is no God.  The
second would be that there is a God.  Then there are two options for each of
those possibilities that could affect a person making a possibility of four
circumstances.  One, a person believes in a God and there is no God.  Two, a
person believes there is a no God and there is no God.  Three, a person
believes there is no God and there is a God.  Four, a person believes there
is a God and there is a God.
    So the first possibility is that a person believes there is no God and
there really is no God.   This situation the person was wrong.  What happens
when this person dies?  They will cease to exist and there is nothing they
can do about it because they are dead.  Now the second possibility is that a
person believes there is no God and there really is no God.  This situation
the person was right.  What happens when this person dies?  They will cease
to exist and there is nothing they can do about it because they are dead. 
So if there is no God it doesn't really matter what the person believes
because the outcome is the same.  It really doesn't matter who was right and
wrong either because the outcome was the same.
    Now the third possibility is that a person believes there is no God and
there really is a God.  This situation the person was wrong.  What happens
when this person dies?  Most religions believe that something bad will
happen to this person.  Example, Christians believe that the person will go
to hell if they don't believe that Jesus was their Savior.  Finally the
fourth possibility is that a person believes there is a God and there really
is a God.  This situation the person was right.  What happens when this
person dies?  Most religions believe that something good will happen to this
person.  Example, Christians believe that the person will go to Heaven if
they do believe that Jesus was their Savior.  So if there really is a God it
does matter what a person believes.  Would rather be wrong when I die and
find out that there is no God than be wrong and find out there really is a
God.
    I must ask you one more question?  Is it easier to believe that Jesus is
the savior or that there is no God?  To me they are the same.  Of the four
possibilities I mentioned the only one that had a good outcome was believing
there was a God and there really was a God.  Since it is just as easy to
believe that Jesus is the Savior as it is to believe that there is no God I
recommend believing that Jesus is the Savior.  Since you know so much about
Jesus I will tell you about his death.  Right before he died he turned to a
man next to him on the cross and told him he would see him in heaven that
day.  The man who was going to heaven to see Jesus that day was being
crucified for some terrible act but as he was hanging on the cross he talked
to Jesus and believed that Jesus was the savior.  Life is as simple yet as
complex as that, believe that Jesus is the savior and you will go to heaven
or cease to exist.  Believe Jesus isn't the savior and you will go to hell
or cease to exist.  Which is the better option?

Your Friend,
NonAtheist

Seek the Lord and live,... Amos 5:6

* * *

From: Darwin Bedford

I submit this article extracted from Roedy Green's post at http://mindprod.com/god.html

Holy Blackmail

Several people have tried to persuade me to become Christian with a pragmatic argument that goes like this:

Let's assume that it is very unlikely that God exists, say 1%. You should still believe in Him anyway and follow Christian dogma for purely practical reasons. There are four cases:

  1. If you believe in Him and He does not exist, what do you lose? You just die and nothing happens.
  2. If you believe in Him and He does exist, you have eternity in Heaven.
  3. If you don't believe in Him and He does not exist, you just die and nothing happens.
  4. If you don't believe in Him and He does exist, you will rot in Hell for eternity.
You come out ahead if you believe, in two of the four cases.

I counter this argument by saying:

  1. I am interested in the truth, not toadying to some imaginary despot. This argument is roughly the moral equivalent of a scientist falsifying his findings in hopes of receiving a bribe from a tobacco company. It is intellectual dishonesty. Poet Samuel Taylor Coleridge (1772-1834) in his Aids To Reflection put it this way; "He who begins by loving Christianity better than truth, will proceed by loving his own sect or church better than Christianity, and end in loving himself better than all."
  2. If this argument persuades you, then you should become a Muslim. Islam offers far greater after death rewards to the faithful and far more terrifying tortures for the non-believer that Christianity does. Jehovah is a wimp compared with Allah. Read the Qur'an if you are skeptical. I did and had nightmares for months.
  3. The Greek philosopher Epicurus (circa. 341-270 BC) put it this matter-of-fact way: "Why should I fear death? If I am, death is not. If death is, I am not. Why should I fear that which cannot exist when I do?"
  4. Every religion offers these punishments and rewards to its rejectors and adherents, including the worship of Wotan and Zeus and the religions of the Indians of the Amazon. How do you decide which is the true religion? They all sound equally improbable, bogus and silly.
  5. If you follow the tenets of Christianity you would probably lead a more evil life than you would otherwise. You would be judgemental. You would discriminate against gays and probably blacks. You would lie to people about the best ways to cure disease. You would spread superstition and lies that are part of the Christian faith. You would indirectly kill children by blocking sex education about AIDS and birth control. For a more detailed list of the evils of Christianity, see the essay on why Christianity should be combatted. As an extreme example, Jeff Daumer said grace before consuming his murder victims.
  6. If you believe in God, you life will actually be more miserable than if you do not. Why? If you believe in God, you will tend to mope around praying -- wondering why God is ignoring you. You will waste time waiting for God to do things only you can do for yourself. If you don't believe in God, you will be much more practical and self reliant. You won't be saddled with an unrealistic sense of entitlement. You cannot very well be angry with God if you don't believe in Him.
  7.